"She lies better than I can tell the truth. Right. But that was definitely a driving force for why I decided, ultimately, to withdraw because I felt like: OK, federal prison is no joke. Penn also noted that her name change had the effect, whether she had intended it or not, of making her background harder to research. And please go and leave us a rating or a review it helps people find the show. Mackenzie is currently suing the university. As youve had time to sort through this, what do you think was driving Penn to go through this process, which they had to know, at some level, would cost them? Ultimately she decided to apply for the scholarship, in which she proposed to expand on the subject of her undergraduate thesis, the intertwining of the foster care and juvenile justice systems, to "continue to try to move forward in my life. She added the additional detail that at the time of her first hospitalization, Fierceton had just failed her first AP Chemistry test. But yeah, that, I guess, just one point of clarification that I recently, in the last few months, just found out about. She felt as if it might have been an attempt to intimidate her. RG: Who will spend some significant amount of time in poverty. "[3][l], The Chronicle story led to nationwide coverage,[17][18] most of which framed the narrative as Penn and the Rhodes Trust had in their reports, depicting Fierceton as yet another exposed fraud. But she says she occasionally received packages at her dorm room containing objects she suspected had come from her mother, such as a bracelet with an inscription about finding the truth, or others close to her, such as a pair of sneakers, which she believed Lovelace, who had sometimes helped her stretch before workouts, had sent. [2], To White, Morrison repeated her story that her daughter had fabricated the abuse allegations. She was then admitted to Penn on a full scholarship, where she identified as a first-generation low-income (FGLI) student despite her background due to her estrangement from her parents and lack of financial support from them, a classification she says Penn officials told her was acceptable in those circumstances. Yeah. And you saw that playing out right away, right, when your biological mother was first arrested? And we have this idea of what a person looks like who commits a crime or who gets arrested for child abuse. [2], A week later, Fierceton received an email asking her to attend a meeting over Zoom with Winkelstein. I think for a lot of us, we have to sort of other poverty and abuse and put it in a box, partly, to protect ourselves. [2][h], In January 2020[4] Fierceton had a seizure and collapsed during a class for one of her graduate social work courses. Or is that it separates two into one? Fierceton told the story that, according to her diary, her mother had told her to tellthat she had tripped while playing with the family dogs and bruised herself on the corner of a nearby table. [4] After gathering all the evidence, they approached Driver's widow, Roxanne Logan, who had not been informed of the accessibility issues and delays involved in her husband's death; in fact she had been given the impression he had been evacuated from the building almost as soon as he began experiencing symptoms. But I think a lot of it stems from the current policies and practices of federal and local funding and what kind of programs theyre funding for kids. I took photos of the building and sent it to them, and I was connecting them with different people who were in my class, who were in his class. When she was a teenager, she showed up bloodied and bruised at her elite private school. And because poverty and abuse are so pervasive in society and particularly in a country that has such a minimal social safety net and has so much violence. She found Fierceton's diary at the house and read it, then interviewed teachers and administrators at Whitfield, learning of Morrison's insulting texts to Fierceton. Fierceton says she had not failed any tests; her Whitfield transcript shows she got a B+ in the class. Like there is more attention to systemic poverty and trying to keep children in their homes to begin with, I would say, which is important, because if you can keep kids in their homes, then theyre not in the system and facing that foster-to-prison pipeline. And thats again, like not because there isnt abuse or neglect going on in families that looked like mine, or biological families that looked like mine. Yes. And it has, has she stuck by that? And theres also literature thats economic literature versus sociology, different fields have different perspectives on what that relationship between foster care and the criminal justice system is and what the causes are. MF: verbally. And eventually they filed a big wrongful death lawsuit in August 2020. You have a good education and youre clearly smart. Thats why Im pausing to let her catch her breath. And Im Ryan Grim, D.C. bureau chief of The Intercept. ", However, in its report, Penn notes that Fierceton had, in an essay (which it allows may not have actually been submitted) for her application for a travel, The Rhodes report acknowledged her documentation of an email she wrote to a reporter at the, Penn's investigation noted that even if Fierceton had been referring to the Chesterfield police rather than the. I mean, youd been taking loss after loss, despite having the facts on your side. She bounced from one foster home to the next. Fierceton finished her Whitfield education on a scholarship while living in foster homes. And at the time I was more in panic mode than like, let me step back and look at this logically, theres absolutely no case, this is an intimidation tactic to try to silence me and sign this NDA and withdraw from the Rhodes and agree to whatever terms they wanted me to agree to you. And thats an unfortunate reality so many survivors experience, not having a lot of documentation. If you enjoy this podcast, be sure to also check out Intercepted as well as Murderville, which is now in its second season. I think they do have a richer experience if they have more diversity around them, but that is more the point. And Im curious where you would pinpoint it, but I would guess that its The Philadelphia Inquirer story that started with an incorrect lead that said: Mackenzie Fierston grew up poor, something very close to that? She petitioned the court, and was able to successfully have her name removed, with a judge ruling that there wasnt enough evidence to substantiate the abuse allegations specifically, saying, While it is possible that Petitioner was the cause of the alleged injuries, the court cannot make that finding by a preponderance of the evidence based on the evidence presented.. We started building this, and this is exactly who we built it for. And then instantly people started picking her story apart. "She was falling apart under the academic stresses at school and was exhausted, and I believe looking for an out." Mackenzie told the police her mother had pushed her down the stairs and struck her in the face. Because Im not under any illusion that Im the typical foster kid. That evening that the article came out is when I got a call from the reporter saying: I got this anonymous email that said X, Y, Z, and I wanted to let you know. @RachelAviv for @NewYorker MF: Yeah. One possible explanation for this depressing story is that Mackenzie Fierceton fraudulently accused her own mother of gravely abusing and attempting to kill her, spent 22 days in the hospital to . But the outline of the story is this: Mackenzie was raised in a wealthy St. Louis suburb by a single mother who was repeatedly abusive, according to two state agencies. Her supporters at Penn have called for the university's acting provost, Beth Winkelstein, to be held accountable for her role in the investigation, which has been characterized as a continuation of the abuse. In a 25-minute conversation, she went into detail with Fierceton about her past and what she planned to do with her scholarship. RG: Thats been my understanding of it. To me, it seems like any reader of the English language would read that in a literary sense , of its self-exploration, self-doubt, trauma. And it was a very similar situation where it took everyone a long time to get to the building. So one question was: Are you from a low-income family? Like you said, I was called into a meeting. What foster family were you with in X,Y, Z year? Mackenzie Fierceton, C'20, has been awarded a 2021 Rhodes Scholarship for graduate study at the University of Oxford. The battle between her and the school was chronicled by Rachel Aviv in the New Yorker earlier this month. And so I was like, of course, Im going to respond again. And I was actually really nervous about doing any press for this reason. So the Rhodes Trust ended up after their quote-investigation, and I submitted all the evidence, they ended up still recommending that my scholarship be rescinded, uh, but I had another opportunity to respond to their report, which I absolutely wanted to do. And I think psychologically one way people feel safer about it is to say: No, that happens to other people. It finds the definition the university's office uses, without that language, as being more determinative; Penn First, the FGLI student organization Fierceton had been involved with, also used that definition on its website for most of the time she was an undergraduate. I mean, part of it is honestly like its looking at cause we just wanted to be as thorough as possible of when [laughs] I was crying, and then I was crying and taking breaths. I have some of my own theories, but I want to hear yours. And I was having flashbacks to cross-examinations and depositions Id given about this which later made sense, because we found out that Wendy White had spoken with one of Carries defense lawyers. But I guess I cant say for sure. Thats the reality of it, but we dont want to think of it that way. Fierceton's life story, as well as her self-identification as a "first generation" college student, came under scrutiny by the university when an anonymous email alleged that Fierceton was not. 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